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Zenvo Automotive
Description: These are, after all, the hottest affordable RWD sports coupes on the market: the Scion FR-S born and bred in Tokyo, and the Korean-raised Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0 Turbo. 274 horsepower and 275 lb-ft...
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That kinda power isn't bad for a 4 cyl. Still want at least an extra 2 :)
Don't like the genesis coupe fog lights. Hate the grill and I wonder if you can get yellow Fog lights for it?
I like the brz more cause it can have that sweet Subaru blue and has more style to it IMO
look fantastic (sorry about multiple comments, I ran into the text character limiter)
I saw the FRS about 3 hours ago for my first time in person. It was at a dealership, in the same color as this one. IMO, pictures don't do this car justice, it looks much better in person. In a different color (black, blue etc) I think it would
K, every time I keep wanting to comment on here, I have to re login, annoying, but the fr-s is starting to loose me, and the new genesis is growing on me...
Saw a lightly modded last gen Genesis a couple mins ago. Beautifully done car. Was kinda excited when I saw it
i liked the last gen of the genesis then i saw the new one in person and.now i think the old one is alot uglier
Haha matt I feel the opposite way, I did not like the last one at all, but I do like this one
Everytime u get suckered into paying 33% more than the negotiated price, a dealer thinks they should always get away with it.
If a dealer tries charging more, that's just because they know a sucker will pay it. I even have a friend that just bought a new Focus. Tried to pick it up & dealer gave her keys to a Fiesta... & tried telling her they were "basically the same"
@no pistons: you're every car salesman's wet dream if you pay $12k for a car advertised @$9k! For future reference, on a used car you only have to pay cost plus sales tax. Title fee is a crock, tag fees pay to DMV.
@zach There's more then just tax To give you an example, my rx8 was only high 9k but when all said and done it was 12k to go home with it and that was with a used car
Neither one p these cars are for me personally. And neither is the car I'm about to mention but since you guys are in such hot debate about it, the mustang is "under 25".
Saw one of these up close for the first time today also. I won't be trading in my 370Z anytime soon for it, but I will say for mid-$20 price range it's a decent looking car and seems like it would be fun to drive.
@ no pistons, no I havent bought a car befor, lol, but ik about taxes and shipping fees, but taxes in mi are 6% and should only boost it up 1000 bucks cause fuel efficient cars get discounts on the sales tak
who cares if its more then 25k 26 or 7 isn't much more and this is a fierce little machine! worth the money and the looks of it!... need I say more? the name also speaks for itsellf anyone that knows about it know its made my Toyota one of the best gooker auto companies out there!
@williams actually, believe it or not, I was at a dealership about 3 hours ago, and they had an frs just like this, same color and all, and they had it for 26k, I did not look at what options were on it, but I don't think there were many. So your
@zach Obviously your young and havent bought a new car before so I won't hold that against you but the sticker price is not the final price, slap another 2-3k to it if you want to leave the lot with it and second 25,100 is still over 25k
Wait for a year or two, demand will die off and it'll be down around 20-22k.
@zach it is rare to find that price right now, even so I think it is over priced it should be 22k
Me thinks it varies from location and demand. Over in Texas I'm sure its under 25k.
The light kit on the toyota gt looks so much better, both the head lights and the fog lights, no comparison.
I actually think this looks nicer than the scion. Actually all of hyundai's cars look really good lately with their sleek styling IMO.
i like the way it looks and the sound of the 2.0 is crazy agressive.. i been thinking about this as my next car
@Adam: IMO the scion looks boring, the Hyundai (which I don't like) looks a little better
I have no problem with the grill. It's having the fat bumper run straight through the middle of it
Everone has there on tastes and I personally think wide grill looks more modern and in line with other sports cars including Hyundai's products. Just my thinking..
Just thank goodness that in this age of hybrids and safety .. There are decent RWD cars out there .. I own the 3.8 variant of this and loving it :) I personally think that in real life .. The genesis has more of a presence and power to bruise egos
Why do I get the feeling if the FR-S had summer tires it would have crushed the Genesis?
Ok Aaron I get what your saying. For its price, the frs handles like a gt3 for its price.
And would have won this shoot out just with tires alone, not having the same tires as the genesis makes it a bit lop sided. Track times have been bettered by two seconds a lap just by changing tires on the fr-s and br-z.
@john no I haven't driven the gt3 but that's not what I was saying, I was saying there's a reason why it's handeling has bean compared to the gt3 by a few drivers. It's a great platform and with some better tires and hp it will be amazing!!
Is a drifting car, it's suppost to b light. Well balanced and a good car for tuning, not to have 600lb/ft of torque for drag racing
@ Bruce... The point of the s2k and rx8 are to rev them up to get power, they're not meant for drag racing! But on a track where your keeping the car @ 6500 rpm's + they have all the torque u need, especially with how light they are... And the 240sx
There's going to be a huge aftermarket for the FRS. This car will become Scion's first icon.
All I'm saying is the fr-s is the best platform for cheep modern sports car
I used to work at a shop that souped z's and 914's up. Just sayin go to your local track or auto cross event and see for yourself how the 300's do. They just aren't a good platform.
I've owened and driven many z cars, so yes im aware of what the 300 looks like. Still think its a piece! the wide body im talking about is the 300z tube chasis race car that has set lots of records and won many races.
Yea Steven, I meant Aaron
@ aaron Fact: If all 300zx's are "slow" then both frs and genesis are SLOWER. Lol
I literally have no idea what special run model you're talking about lol. Do yourself a favor and search 300 TT or 300 TTZ, and then you'll know what I'm talking about. Normal production 300zx w/ turbo lol! No special wide body kit.
@aaron: NO. I'm talking about the regular production TTZ. Lol, man get with it. It came out in 89, and was produced every year, first year as the Z31 Turbo, and every sequential year after it was called "TTZ" and no, no widebody lol
Parts are expensive. Considering I would be financing why would I want the chance of something breaking down. Regular maintenance would still cost a pretty penny. For an average Joe Genesis coupe is better than a beat up old sports car.0
Currently looking at getting a base Genesis coupe 2.0T 6MT. Sure you can get a number of sports cars used for the same price but for someone who needs reliability and warranty. It doesn't compare. Most of those cars are going on ten years old.
No matter who wins, don't forget, with a turbo the subaru built scion fr-s boxer engine would have more potential for more power, and its l lighter, with near perfect balance. Not to mention it looks really good, and the Hyundai looks Just gross
@John I'm not talking about the gt3rs that was Aaron, the gt3rs used to be slower till they made it well over 400hp
Ehh.. VR4, TT, AWD & AWS, and I'd take the BRZ.
@stephen compared to the gt3rs? That is not only in a different league, that's on a whole other planet! I get what your saying about the feel of the car, but have you driven even the GT3 RS?
Handling is important but it can't make up for huge horsepower difference. Take the miata it is an amazingly well balanced and handling car, but it's not faster on a road course the the Mazda speed 3
High horse power doesn't mean a thing on a tight road course or a winding mountian road, if your car is soft and heavy. Don't think you understand, I've beaten high horse power cars, with cars with less than half there power. Handling counts for more
Stock for stock the frs is much slower, great handling and driving fun doesn't make it as fast as high horsepower cars
Of course it is fast if you turbo it, then it's a rwd lighter wrx
I know that the fr-s is fast on the track specially with different tires, and with a turbo it's crazy fast, on the track! Such a well balanced car, one of the best cars I've seen in years. There's a reason its been compared it to a gt3 RS
Ben the 300tt your talking about is the red white and blue wide body right cause ya that car was amazing, but its nothing like the production car, well it did share the same dash. Fact:Production 300's are slow on the track.
@Paul obviously people DO care, because they are talking about it hahaha
@Aaron I have driven it that's why I said how good it was, but I think the frs will handle better. What I said was it will take more then a couple upgrades for it to be faster
300ZX is a boat.
@aaron: The 300TTZ and 300ZX dominated from 89-93, and beyond, regardless of your personal opinion. It won hundreds of awards, shootouts, top speed, laps, time trials, etc. Fact: neither of the cars here are faster.
Obviously haven't driven a 300 and compared it to an actual track car. Out of all the cars I've driven the 300z is at the bottom. If you want a z for the track get the 240z you can get 400 NA HP out of it. It's light stiff, cornering god!
@ben @stephen the 300 your referring to was specially prepared by Nissan, was much stiffer and wider than its street sibling that was and is more of a step child than a sibling. The street version is soft, heavy and needs extensive cassis upgrades..
Stupid conclusion: "car x is more FUN to drive" Well ain't that subjective. In this case the "FUN" car was the slower car.. I didn't know losing was fun, but to each his own.
you guys arent even commenting on the cars. this has become a discussion of what USED cars you can buy for 25K....no one cares
And, btw, I got it at a dealer
@Matt I picked it up in Georgia. I did find some later models for the same price, but they had more mileage
Yeah Matt your right. Forgot about that.
And tbh if I had the British equivalent in cash , so I'm guessing 15k I'd happily buy an M3 E46. My favourite car lol some immaculate models here with 20k miles 2006 models :)
Not as "terable" as your spelling Aaron
What about the S200, Nissan 240SX, & RX-8? I guess the got torque too huh!
Adding onto Kyles list... Gtr Supra Nsx Is-f Evo
For 17k I've sen the odd 06-07 even!!!!
Ghee where r u from, cuz in Ontario. I've seen many s2k's go for 12-15k and the 2000-2001 go for 9-10k. If ur buying strictly from the dealer though, I've seen some @ 14-16k
You must be thinking of naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines which obviously do lack torque when compared to larger engines. Generally speaking, those are specific to Japan. But to say Japanese cars have no torque as a whole is ignorant.
Japanese cars do not lack torque. The following have more than enough: Lexus ISF Nissan 350Z Nissan GTR Subaru WRX STI MazdaSpeed 3 Acura TL SH-AWD - almost identical power figures to the Mustang V6. ...the list goes on Look at the figures.
The problem I have with most Japanese cars is most of them lack torque(they aren't able to put power on the ground fast enough like american & european cars) just my two cents
You can get a decent s2k for well under 20 grand. I bought an '04 with 65,000 miles for $17k. And cost of maintenance for a BMW or Porsche isn't an issue if you fix it yourself;)
@ Kevin... I like both of em, I just said the frs cuz that's what the articals on
@Aaron you don't know what you are talking about the 300 is a great track car especially the twin turbo, they are well balecened and have rear wheel steering. The brz/frs is a fun car and handles nice but it will take more than a couple upgrades to be as fast around a track as a 300zx turbo
@aaron The turbo 300zx is one of the most awarded cars ever. It competed with vipers, Vette, surpas, 3000gt, Lambos, ferraris, etc. it holds still unbroken records as of today. These little frs/brz's are not even in the same class of car!
@besim you do know the 300 is a terable track car, and the brz and the frs are track focused cars. 300 couldn't compete with a slightly moded brz or frs. You obviously haven't driven these cars
Or how about a twin Turbo 300zx for under 10k. 300 HP almost 400 with bolt ons
@greg Parker when it comes to drifting the more grip the better!! Not the other way around. If you want the fr-s as a drifter, you need better tires and more power, the car is about fun as is, not drifting. Drive one before making dumb statements.
between these two I'd take the fr-s, looks better, better balanced, lighter, more of a drivers car, oh and if they had better tires on it, would've beaten the genesis. Tires improve times more than a second or two on the fr-s.
But I have a s2k so I'm good
@Matthew the frs is cheaper yea but the brz is better. Better interior and who really built the cars? Subaru. Pay a few grand extra for a better car that will keep more value is better. Scion resale value is crap and Subaru resale value is great.
Yea jack, I'd probably go with an s2000, well used cayman, or a used mustang gt
Because of current markup on the frs you can get the genesis v6 for only a grand or two more. That said for 25k I would buy a wrx
But i think given that we are looking at RWD cars, I would have to go with the s2000 because you can still get one with low miles because production ended in 2009, it has a revvy 240hp N/A vtec, and its lightweight with FRS/BRZ like handling.
Even the early 90s NSX is still around 40,000. An M3 at 25,000 would have a lot of miles on it and maintenence would be a lot. A corvette would not be a rational choice when buying a 25,000 car.
For a NEW car under 25k, I'd take the fr/s used and reasonably cheap to maintain (so not a BMW Porsche etc...) I'd go s2k, sti or Evo... And u can't get an nsx at that price in good condition
Ya you can get a used NSX were I live from 18-30k
@Kevin how? And scion FRS's are easier to get.
I thought the FR-S had a 50/50 distribution.
neither of these cars will be on my list
Would be interesting to see the genesis v6 But I would rather put my 25000 in a used cayman
There's not that much of a performance difference between the FRS & BRZ; good cars but need power & torque
sooo i can get a used 458 italia for 25k too right? -.- >.>
I don't think you could get an NSX for 25,000 lol
$25,000? e46 m3.
Ok guys, assume that you're buying a NEW car when factoring the price point. No one cares if you can get a turbo Yugo for cheaper than these cars.
25k for a used car is a lot there are so many good cars you could get for that you could get a vett mustang camaro NSX STI an MR Evo a 370/350z Mazda speed 3 an RX8 s2000 M3 all those cars will be my first chocies before I thin an FRS/BRZ or even
Why does everyone do reviews with the Scion FR-S? Use the Subaru BRZ it is clearly so much better in every single way honestly.
Used STi or S2000 would be my choice for $25k
Put me in a ditch that much faster. I don't pretend to be a highly skilled driver, I'm just an average car guy.
I would still have the frs...I drove one and it was probably one of my favorite cars I've ever driven. I haven't driven the new genesis coupe but if it is anything like the last model, it's too soft. I don't need the extra horsepower, it's just gonna
Oh yea 10 year 100000mile warranty vs 3 year 36000 mile warranty
And the fun to drive factor they talk about seems to be the ability to drift slightly but with torque that high in rpms and the small amount of torque it has, if you put decent tires on it that drift ability goes away
I like both a lot, the FR-S would be cheaper to own overtime and more reliable but the Hyundai packs the punch and has a lot going for it. A used 335i, would be nice, but extremely troublesome to own unless you have money put away.
And think about the amount of money to make genesis "fun to drive" coilovers and strut tower braces. Now think about money to squeeze out another 75hp out of that motor of fr-s I bet it a lot more money than suspension work.
First I want to say Brembo brakes have been trash on production cars lately. Second a RC car is fun to drive like they say about the FRS. That doesn't mean I want to buy one and race it around the track while faster cars blow by me.
Same here, tin. Or, one could spend a little extra and get a used cayman
I'd settle for a used 335i.
I exaggerated a little bit. I like the fr-s but knowing how close in price they I wouldn't even consider fr-s.
hate to say it but is take the genesis. plus subarus boxer engine requires significant work to handle power. at least in my experience.
Not really, Greg...lol
Wow a base genesis is only $50 more? Not even a contest no matter the result of any test. The genesis is more of an adult car that doesn't scream "I love fast and furious movies"